Post by Finney on Dec 24, 2005 13:59:06 GMT -5
Hunters in PvE groups.
Alright I suppose its time we discuss the Hunter.
The purpose of a hunter in a group is to be hated. It is also our purpose to justify that hatred by causing wipe after wipe vis a vis letting our pet get out of control, taking aggro away from tanks, and breaking as many sheep, saps, shackles, and our own freeze traps as possible.
Ok so maybe not.
While hunters are rarely/never asked for by name when getting groups together, that doesn’t mean that they’re nonessential or worthless. Some things that make us very capable members are:
1.) Decent CC: Although freeze trap is of a shorter duration than other methods of CC, it can be used against a much wider variety of mobs than sap and sheep (e.g., humanoids, beasts, elementals, some giants, dragonkin, demons, undead). Plus, despite what you might here, you can drop them babies off during combat.
2.) Steady DPS: Hunters just hang back and, through the magic of ranged combat and pet damage, steadily chip away at mobs’ health. Very few attacks cause severe amounts of damage, thus minimizing agro pretty darn well (with the main exception being aimed shot, which I admit I like to use occasionally just to see those 4-digit numbers. But these must be accompanied with…
3.) Feign: Hunters have a relatively quick cooldown on a maneuver that instantly removes agro. This takes you out of combat entirely, allowing you to heal your own darn self, drink for more mana, or (my favorite) renew a freeze trap. Just make sure to take your pet out of combat too!
4.) Battle overview: Being a ranged fighter and having a less stressful job to do mainly involving concentrating on steady damage, it has been my experience that hunters may do well at strategic planning in battles. They’re far enough back to get a good view on things, with tracking they might be able to spot incoming patrols, and they SHOULD be able to take care of runners relatively easy this way (especially if runners run by you, just Wing Clip em real good like). This is my take on this ability, I like having a battle overview, but I’m just so darn slow when it comes to typing urgent messages about the battle at hand that I don’t really help my teammates in letting them know what I see that others might not. (edit: This is really good for places like Strath and Gnomeregan too… you can spot those little alarm nuisances and take care of them real quick).
Things that hunters should watch for / things hunters aren’t so good at:
1.) Pet Control: In many instances, people would prefer that you not use a pet at all. This can be understandable at times. Especially when not Beast Master specced, pets don’t do a whole lot of damage. And often times, they’ll get feared and cause major problems. More often than not, however, the reason people don’t like pets being used is because they do cause a lot of problems:
a. For starters, pets are ridiculously loyal. You jump, and dang it if they won’t find some way down to you. Usually this way involves going through areas you’ve purposely avoided with lots of bad-guys. And the bad-guys… well, they’ll follow the pet until they get to you and the rest of the party. Not a good thing… and when it happens, its VERY obviously your fault.
b. A similar problem. Sending pets after a CC’d mob… or having a pet chase down a mob and getting into all kinds of trouble that way.
The best way I’ve found is just to leave your pet on passive ALL the time. Use an assist macro (/assist “group member name”) and use it to target, then Ctrl-1 to send the pet to the target. Also, please PLEASE make sure to dismiss and resummon a pet before you jump down somewhere. Sure you end up with an unhappy pet sometimes, but it’s a small, small price to pay.
2.) Melee: Hunters sometimes can be somewhat good with melee, but they can’t take damage very well. You most of the time want to remove agro if an enemy charges you by feigning, and then get into range distance again. However, there are times when you just can’t get range distance. If this is the case, just make sure to feign often and switch to a better melee weapon if you happen to have one.
3.) Back it up: It’s a wonderful thing if you can stay put in a fight. It means you can spend more time and concentration on other things such as CC and such. But often times, the fight is dynamic and thus moves around a bit. You may have to find yourself repositioning. If this is the case, checking your surroundings should quickly become a priority. You don’t want to agro a whole new set of 4 or 5 mobs because you backed up into their personal space. This is also often times very clearly identifiable as “your fault” for wipes.
(By the way, I’m sure I’m missing something. Please, if anyone feels the need to add something, by all means)
DOUBLE TRAPPING
Ok, this is one of my favorite hunter abilities, mostly because double-trapping allows you to be more dynamic and creative. Here are some of my favorite double-trapping techniques.
THE “ALL-PURPOSE DOUBLE TRAP”
Ok, this one sometimes requires a little bit of room to be done effectively. First, you wait for someone to pull a group of enemies. Before the pull, place a trap in the path between the party and the group of baddies. Move over away from your group when they pull. Feign. Make sure your pet is on passive. When your trap catches the enemy, awake from feign status. This part is very important in my opinion. Most people think that you have to awake from feign by moving or canceling, but you can get right out of it by activating your next freeze trap. So while you’re on the ground, click the freeze trap button to remove yourself from feign and place another trap. Then (using “v” to check life bars of enemies) pull a mob that isn’t being picked on. Viola! Two CC’d baddies! If you’re extra awesome, you can feign again before the trap wears off on your second CC and place another near him, doubling his removal from combat.
THE “OMG THE PRIEST IS GETTING WAILED ON” TRAP
Sometimes, when I really feel like a priest in my group deserves being especially protected, I’ll make sure I use my double trap as a priest shield. As before, I’ll place my first trap in between the path of incoming bad guys and the party. Then I back up to a priest/druid and stand next to him/her. Once the first trap is sprung, I feign. Then, once again making sure I’m in fact out of combat, I click on the freeze trap button again. This wakes me up and instantly places a trap near the healer. Then for the rest of the fight, I hang out with the healer and engage in idle chit-chat while the healer comfortably heals behind their wall of ice. Unfortunately, this only controls ONE healing agro’d monster, but an added bonus is the giant red-flag (or blue-flag I guess) of a big ol’ glacier popping up in front of the healer. This lets everyone know that the healer might be in a pickle.
THE “LOL, THE SAP IS RUNNING OUT AND WE’RE STILL BUSY” TRAP
This is another technique I use. First, I do the same as the two mentioned above: I set my first trap in the path of incomings. Then, as we’re fighting, I judge how much time we’re spending fighting the other bad guys. If it seems to be taking some time, I book it toward the sapped target and feign a few steps in front of his dizzy self. Put pet on passive, and then hit that ice trap button again. This way, when the sapped bozo comes to, he’ll get maybe 2 steps of consciousness before he gets caught yet again. Then, help the group clean up the last few un-CC’d baddies. When the time comes, the one mob that hasn’t had his chance to prove himself yet will finally come to. But, yeah, by that time he’s screwed. Just remember, don’t place the trap TOO close to the sapped bad guy or the trap will activate and decrease your time that you have to work with slightly. Also, I wouldn’t do this as much with a sheeped mob. The sheep wanders around somewhat unpredictably, and could prematurely trigger the trap.
THE “COMPLETELY PANICKED” TRAP
Ok, this one is very hit and miss. There are rare occasions when the group is just being overwhelmed, yet the agro is too high to pull a mob away from the pack into a distant second trap. However, this one can still be pulled off. I’ve done it a few times myself. If there are overwhelming numbers, move out of range and into the fray. Use “v” to check the health bars of the bad guys and pick the one FARTHEST from the tank and who’s health is NOT being depleted. Feign right next to him, put pet on passive, click ice trap to wake up, and PRAY that it sticks to him and doesn’t break.
That’s all I have time for right now. I’ll be making videos of each of these trapping methods and uploading them later somehow (haven’t figured that part out yet). Please, if I’ve missed anything, add to it. I’m sure I’ll be editing this entry regularly to put stuff in I might have forgotten. But a few last things:
If you want to get some macros that REALLY help out, I highly recommend getting Zorlen’s Hunter Functions. It’s at this page tkasomething.com. Also, they have in diagram form the general double-trapping procedure. Plus some other really useful guides and information (such as a good bestiary with pictures, a statistical analysis of agility and damage information, etc.).
~FINNEY'S TRAPPING TUTORIAL VIDEO SERIES~
1.) One mob, two traps. This method would be used to save a particularly difficult enemy for last. Take care of the weakest enemies, while the more difficult one grapples with the two traps.
2.) Two mobs, two traps. This is good for CCing one enemy in a pull, and a second that stands farther away from the group (usually an enemy caster or healer).
3.) Trap one, then pull aggro from one. This is when you trap first, then pull aggro off of a tank for *just one enemy* to trap the enemy and ensure no AoEs break the trap.
www.youtube.com/?v=FbFjeCGa6UQ
Alright I suppose its time we discuss the Hunter.
The purpose of a hunter in a group is to be hated. It is also our purpose to justify that hatred by causing wipe after wipe vis a vis letting our pet get out of control, taking aggro away from tanks, and breaking as many sheep, saps, shackles, and our own freeze traps as possible.
Ok so maybe not.
While hunters are rarely/never asked for by name when getting groups together, that doesn’t mean that they’re nonessential or worthless. Some things that make us very capable members are:
1.) Decent CC: Although freeze trap is of a shorter duration than other methods of CC, it can be used against a much wider variety of mobs than sap and sheep (e.g., humanoids, beasts, elementals, some giants, dragonkin, demons, undead). Plus, despite what you might here, you can drop them babies off during combat.
2.) Steady DPS: Hunters just hang back and, through the magic of ranged combat and pet damage, steadily chip away at mobs’ health. Very few attacks cause severe amounts of damage, thus minimizing agro pretty darn well (with the main exception being aimed shot, which I admit I like to use occasionally just to see those 4-digit numbers. But these must be accompanied with…
3.) Feign: Hunters have a relatively quick cooldown on a maneuver that instantly removes agro. This takes you out of combat entirely, allowing you to heal your own darn self, drink for more mana, or (my favorite) renew a freeze trap. Just make sure to take your pet out of combat too!
4.) Battle overview: Being a ranged fighter and having a less stressful job to do mainly involving concentrating on steady damage, it has been my experience that hunters may do well at strategic planning in battles. They’re far enough back to get a good view on things, with tracking they might be able to spot incoming patrols, and they SHOULD be able to take care of runners relatively easy this way (especially if runners run by you, just Wing Clip em real good like). This is my take on this ability, I like having a battle overview, but I’m just so darn slow when it comes to typing urgent messages about the battle at hand that I don’t really help my teammates in letting them know what I see that others might not. (edit: This is really good for places like Strath and Gnomeregan too… you can spot those little alarm nuisances and take care of them real quick).
Things that hunters should watch for / things hunters aren’t so good at:
1.) Pet Control: In many instances, people would prefer that you not use a pet at all. This can be understandable at times. Especially when not Beast Master specced, pets don’t do a whole lot of damage. And often times, they’ll get feared and cause major problems. More often than not, however, the reason people don’t like pets being used is because they do cause a lot of problems:
a. For starters, pets are ridiculously loyal. You jump, and dang it if they won’t find some way down to you. Usually this way involves going through areas you’ve purposely avoided with lots of bad-guys. And the bad-guys… well, they’ll follow the pet until they get to you and the rest of the party. Not a good thing… and when it happens, its VERY obviously your fault.
b. A similar problem. Sending pets after a CC’d mob… or having a pet chase down a mob and getting into all kinds of trouble that way.
The best way I’ve found is just to leave your pet on passive ALL the time. Use an assist macro (/assist “group member name”) and use it to target, then Ctrl-1 to send the pet to the target. Also, please PLEASE make sure to dismiss and resummon a pet before you jump down somewhere. Sure you end up with an unhappy pet sometimes, but it’s a small, small price to pay.
2.) Melee: Hunters sometimes can be somewhat good with melee, but they can’t take damage very well. You most of the time want to remove agro if an enemy charges you by feigning, and then get into range distance again. However, there are times when you just can’t get range distance. If this is the case, just make sure to feign often and switch to a better melee weapon if you happen to have one.
3.) Back it up: It’s a wonderful thing if you can stay put in a fight. It means you can spend more time and concentration on other things such as CC and such. But often times, the fight is dynamic and thus moves around a bit. You may have to find yourself repositioning. If this is the case, checking your surroundings should quickly become a priority. You don’t want to agro a whole new set of 4 or 5 mobs because you backed up into their personal space. This is also often times very clearly identifiable as “your fault” for wipes.
(By the way, I’m sure I’m missing something. Please, if anyone feels the need to add something, by all means)
DOUBLE TRAPPING
Ok, this is one of my favorite hunter abilities, mostly because double-trapping allows you to be more dynamic and creative. Here are some of my favorite double-trapping techniques.
THE “ALL-PURPOSE DOUBLE TRAP”
Ok, this one sometimes requires a little bit of room to be done effectively. First, you wait for someone to pull a group of enemies. Before the pull, place a trap in the path between the party and the group of baddies. Move over away from your group when they pull. Feign. Make sure your pet is on passive. When your trap catches the enemy, awake from feign status. This part is very important in my opinion. Most people think that you have to awake from feign by moving or canceling, but you can get right out of it by activating your next freeze trap. So while you’re on the ground, click the freeze trap button to remove yourself from feign and place another trap. Then (using “v” to check life bars of enemies) pull a mob that isn’t being picked on. Viola! Two CC’d baddies! If you’re extra awesome, you can feign again before the trap wears off on your second CC and place another near him, doubling his removal from combat.
THE “OMG THE PRIEST IS GETTING WAILED ON” TRAP
Sometimes, when I really feel like a priest in my group deserves being especially protected, I’ll make sure I use my double trap as a priest shield. As before, I’ll place my first trap in between the path of incoming bad guys and the party. Then I back up to a priest/druid and stand next to him/her. Once the first trap is sprung, I feign. Then, once again making sure I’m in fact out of combat, I click on the freeze trap button again. This wakes me up and instantly places a trap near the healer. Then for the rest of the fight, I hang out with the healer and engage in idle chit-chat while the healer comfortably heals behind their wall of ice. Unfortunately, this only controls ONE healing agro’d monster, but an added bonus is the giant red-flag (or blue-flag I guess) of a big ol’ glacier popping up in front of the healer. This lets everyone know that the healer might be in a pickle.
THE “LOL, THE SAP IS RUNNING OUT AND WE’RE STILL BUSY” TRAP
This is another technique I use. First, I do the same as the two mentioned above: I set my first trap in the path of incomings. Then, as we’re fighting, I judge how much time we’re spending fighting the other bad guys. If it seems to be taking some time, I book it toward the sapped target and feign a few steps in front of his dizzy self. Put pet on passive, and then hit that ice trap button again. This way, when the sapped bozo comes to, he’ll get maybe 2 steps of consciousness before he gets caught yet again. Then, help the group clean up the last few un-CC’d baddies. When the time comes, the one mob that hasn’t had his chance to prove himself yet will finally come to. But, yeah, by that time he’s screwed. Just remember, don’t place the trap TOO close to the sapped bad guy or the trap will activate and decrease your time that you have to work with slightly. Also, I wouldn’t do this as much with a sheeped mob. The sheep wanders around somewhat unpredictably, and could prematurely trigger the trap.
THE “COMPLETELY PANICKED” TRAP
Ok, this one is very hit and miss. There are rare occasions when the group is just being overwhelmed, yet the agro is too high to pull a mob away from the pack into a distant second trap. However, this one can still be pulled off. I’ve done it a few times myself. If there are overwhelming numbers, move out of range and into the fray. Use “v” to check the health bars of the bad guys and pick the one FARTHEST from the tank and who’s health is NOT being depleted. Feign right next to him, put pet on passive, click ice trap to wake up, and PRAY that it sticks to him and doesn’t break.
That’s all I have time for right now. I’ll be making videos of each of these trapping methods and uploading them later somehow (haven’t figured that part out yet). Please, if I’ve missed anything, add to it. I’m sure I’ll be editing this entry regularly to put stuff in I might have forgotten. But a few last things:
If you want to get some macros that REALLY help out, I highly recommend getting Zorlen’s Hunter Functions. It’s at this page tkasomething.com. Also, they have in diagram form the general double-trapping procedure. Plus some other really useful guides and information (such as a good bestiary with pictures, a statistical analysis of agility and damage information, etc.).
~FINNEY'S TRAPPING TUTORIAL VIDEO SERIES~
1.) One mob, two traps. This method would be used to save a particularly difficult enemy for last. Take care of the weakest enemies, while the more difficult one grapples with the two traps.
2.) Two mobs, two traps. This is good for CCing one enemy in a pull, and a second that stands farther away from the group (usually an enemy caster or healer).
3.) Trap one, then pull aggro from one. This is when you trap first, then pull aggro off of a tank for *just one enemy* to trap the enemy and ensure no AoEs break the trap.
www.youtube.com/?v=FbFjeCGa6UQ